Meet Cirina Catania – Writer, Director, Cinematographer

Although being cooped up at home for weeks is necessary right now, it is far from ideal. But it does give us an opportunity to check in with some busy members of our community to discuss their careers, their advice for filmmakers and what they are working on now. Next up, please meet Cirina Catania!

Los Angeles Post Production Group: Thanks for taking some time, Cirina. You’ve had a nice

long career and have worked in a variety of roles in the film industry. Can you share some of your favorite highlights with us?

Cirina Catania: Life has been an incredible journey so far! And I’m still traveling that winding road.

Looking back is not something I do often, but as I turn in that direction I realize that there have been many highlights:

– At the still awkward age of 16, standing in front of a table of stern-faced judges at the Conservatoire Nationale d’Orleans and watching them as I sight-read a song a-cappella I’d never seen before and as I sang another number, also unrehearsed, while an accompanist played the piano. I can still smell the wood halls, see the light reflecting from the windows on to the floor in rays and feel the parchment in my hands a few days later as I claimed first prize.

– In Munich, Germany at the fashion houses, modeling wedding gowns for buyers, a tough thing for me, as I’m 5’4 1/2” and the gowns were all made for tall women!  But it was fun, for the very short time it lasted!

– Working in Salt Lake City on the crews for independent films, later as the owner of a talent agency (SAG, AFTRA and AFofM franchised), then on the Utah Film Commission and then on the first years of the Sundance Film Festival as co-founder and executive director. Spending a few days with Jimmy Stewart and Frank Capra is indelibly etched in my memories.

– My first day on the MGM/UA lot, ensconced in the famous Thalberg Building with a huge rolodex from my predecessor, two awesome secretaries and a star on the door. I still wore Laura Ashley long dresses with white crinolines underneath…and couldn’t pronounce the name of the James Bond film I was working on because it was named after a part of the “female anatomy.”

-Years later, I had survived the Hollywood Jungle, lost my shyness and the warrior came out as I took the reins in the Worldwide Marketing Department of the theatrical division, reporting to the President and the Chairman of the Board with sign-off on a $200 million dollar a year budget.

– Standing in a dark open field in the middle of the night somewhere in middle America, directing and shooting “Chasing Lightning” for National Geographic and pausing to look up into the black sky. It was the one time I have felt so utterly small on this great Mother Earth.

– Getting up at four in the morning during a major snowstorm in June Lake, California, so that I could join the other members of my Ski Patrol on a ride in the dark up the lift to clear the slopes from avalanche danger.  Woo hoo!  First powder!!!!

– That time I was shooting the final few moments in Durban, South Africa, looking through the lens of my camera and running alongside of Danny Glover (his legs are much longer than mine)! I ran right into a concrete pillar, smashed to the sidewalk, and landed unconscious on the ground. Did you know your head makes a watermelon thump when it hits a hard surface?  Next thing I know, I wake up and Danny is leaning right over me, “Are you alright, are you alright?!” To which I reply, “Where’s my camera?” (p.s. it survived the long arch to the concrete, but my arm…not so well…it was broken).

– Traveling on the Amazon River, shooting in Prague, Paris, Berlin, Sicily, Belgium, all over the United States in remote areas I didn’t even know existed and in major cities…. It’s a dizzying dream when I think of it all.

How did I get so lucky!

So many more!  

LAPPG: Wow, what a incredible life you are living! I’m exhausted just hearing about all these highlights. What’s currently on the agenda for you these days?

CC: I have three documentaries in post production (one full-length, one 1/2 hour short and the other a pilot for a series).

I am a partner in Lumberjack System, where I serve as tech ambassador and trainer. Proud to be associated with Philip Hodgetts and Gregory Clarke! They are geniuses and two of the nicest people I know.

I am getting more and more into training/teaching/mentoring. I just got back from Flagstaff for Blackmagic, where I taught several media classes at the Coconino High School bordering the Hopi and Navajo Nations, taught a master class in film at the PBS Station in Duluth, and joined the dynamic duo, Sam/Aubrey to help teach Smart Phone Studio here in San Diego.

And, I am the proud host of the podcast, “OWC RADiO,” where I absolutely LOVE to interview interesting, intelligent and creative people. We are sponsored by Other World Computing and I can’t thank them enough for giving me a venue within which to run!

LAPPG: With three docs in post production I think it’s safe to say you are passionate about documentaries. What is it about documentary storytelling that speaks to you?

CC: I am, above all, a storyteller. Fact or fiction – I love the beginning, middle and end. And when it inspires or entertains others, I am grateful. The world is full of incredibly interesting people and telling their stories give us an excuse to stop, get off the treadmill and spend time together. I am never alone, never bored and always grateful.

LAPPG: What advice would you offer to people who have a story to tell and want to tell it via a documentary film?

CC: If someone wants to get into documentary films, I would ask them…why? Know what your end goal is with the stories you want to tell. Do you want to help others, raise money for a good cause, make money selling your film to distributors, or just enjoy the process as you unwind the mysteries that lie before you?  Be patient.  It takes time for most stories to unfold. You don’t always get the ending you anticipated, but I guarantee you, it will be a better one than you could have imagined.

When Kionte Storey didn’t make the Paralympic Track Team (and I’d been following him around for five years)…he was very disappointed.  But, two weeks later, he called me and said, “Cirina, I’m going to climb mountains now.” And I had a new sixth act!

Documentaries take patience. They require deep respect on our part for the people whose stories we are telling…and they take time and money. Be ready to sacrifice.

LAPPG: Let’s switch to the tech side now. What gear do you like to use? Camera, Lenses, Lights, Drives, EditIng Platforms, etc.

I have been shooting mostly with Blackmagic cameras for video and Sony or Canon for client stills. 

My favorite lenses are all from Zeiss. You can’t pry my Zeiss Batis 85 out of my hands. 

I use Rode and Neumann mics, a Scarlett FocusRite and dbx’s 286s mic preamp from Sweetwater and my MacBook Pro for the Podcast with a 35” LG monitor to make it easier to … see stuff!

When I travel, I also shoot a lot with my iPhone 11 Pros. (I have two, an A-Cam and a B-Cam). They are perfect for much more than you can imagine!

OWC drives, including the Thunderbay series, the Thunderbolt 3 Pro Doc, the Envoy Pro, and the amazing Thunderblades, are in my mind the most reliable of any drives out there and their customer service is reachable and you get a human being on the phone who is vested in helping you. Oh, and did I mention that they are FAST.

I’m very excited about my new MacPro and am about to add 128 GB of memory that I bought from MacSales. I have a 27’ Apple 5K Monitor for now but am hoping to get the Pro Display XDR (32” retina 6K) in the next few months.

The iMac is still a wonderful workhorse and when I have an assistant in the studio with me, that is what they work on (if they don’t bring their own laptop).

My NLE of choice is FCPX because that is the language that I speak and I am comfortable.  Although I would not call myself an audio editor (Woody would surely shake his head!)…I now have Logic Pro and will use it for rough edits.  

Although I do have the Apple wireless pro iPods, I use the Sennheiser Ambeo 3D earbuds for a lot of my field videos, particularly if I’m shooting my granddaughter rockin’ it on the stage belting out “Stairway to Heaven” from Led Zeppelin.

Gear is everywhere in my life. Surely, there is something I am forgetting – drones, action cams, tripods, sound gear, LIGHTS, more lights, more tripods, grip equipment and … gaffers tape (my all-time fav).  

LAPPG: About 3 1/2 years ago you were so generous by coming to LAPPG to discuss the significant storage loss disaster you had. Looking back on that situation. what practices or things do you warn people about in terms of storage and archiving of projects?

CC: That was a tough time. It took over two years from the time I was hacked until the media had been recovered and I had culled through and reorganized what was left. Then there were re-shoots and we continue to dig into files that have no names, just numbers, and no metadata. Kind of like a treasure hunt!

My advice to all of you reading this is to make copies, keep at least one or two of them offline and….log your media so that you know what you have. If you are not using files, place them in semi-permanent or permanent storage, on whatever medium you are most comfortable.

Use Lumberjack System to log as you shoot, Builder to keyword using transcripts, or backLog your legacy footage before it is “stored.” That way, you have the equivalent of an “index “of all your footage.

Buy SoftRAID and use it every day!!!

The other suggestion is that you keep your media and drives organized by category. I have mine organized by:

– Financial and legal (on a separate system)
– Administrative
– Stills/Graphics
– Music
– Media

LAPPG: Speaking of storage, can you tell us about how you handle your storage requirements now?

CC: I am in the process of organizing and backing up my library, and plan to move to LTO tape in the very near future. 

I use BackBlaze, Dropbox and a library of and a library of RAIDS from OWC that are from 12 TB to 24 TB. I’ll be purchasing their 128 TB solution in the very near future.

LAPPG: Speaking of storage can you tell us about your radio show for Other World Computing?

CC: Thanks to Other World Computing for sponsoring me as host of OWC RADIO!  I’m very excited. I am about to post my 54th interview and plan to listen to a new one every week. Last time I looked, I had over 4,000 current contacts in my address book, so there is always someone incredibly interesting to speak with and our audience seems to be enjoying it.

I do hope you take a moment and check us out at http://www.OWCRADiO.com. Please subscribe, share it on social media and help us get the word out so that we can help other tech and creative people have a voice.

LAPPG: Is there a good place for our readers to follow you online?

CC: You can go to @Cirina on Instagram, OWCRADiO.com, or Cirina’s Journal on Facebook (or my personal page on Facebook, Cirina Catania, if you want recipes and family photos). Or visit: http://www.cirinacatania.com.

If you want to know more, Google has lots of “stuff” online … You’ll probably find out more than you ever want to know.

Thanks for asking me to participate, Wendy.  It is always nice to speak with you and I hope to make it from San Diego to Los Angeles when the “isolation” is lifted!

Meet Editor/Director Greg Hobson

Interview by Wendy Woodhall

We had the opportunity to sit down with the very busy, award-winning editor and director and LAPPG member Greg Hobson to discuss his work in television. Greg shares insights on some of the popular shows he worked on, as well as how his career has unfolded and what advice he would offer to those looking for longevity in this industry.

Los Angeles Post Production Group: Thanks for speaking with us Greg! Let’s jump right in. Upon looking at your IMDb what immediately jumps out is all the different hats you’ve worn in this business. From editor to cinematographer to the music department to even writing! Can you share with us how you started and got interested working in the film and television industry?

Greg Hobson: I went to Iowa State University to major in theater, even though I had music scholarships to two other colleges, because if I couldn’t be the trombone player in the rock group Chicago then I couldn’t see myself as a professional musician. My freshman year at ISU I took the basic theater classes and I worked on the lighting crew for an upperclassman’s TV production project and I thought that was way more fun, so my sophomore and junior years I completed the whole TV curriculum.

After Iowa State I moved to California. It took me 7 years to get my master’s degree in film production from UCLA because I kept taking leaves of absence to work on film projects and one two-year stint in Austin, Texas editing two PBS series. Some of my earliest IMDb credits are from this seven-year period.

In my 10 years as a professor at Chapman University I taught 18 different classes, from technical classes including editing, cinematography, and audio techniques, to film aesthetics, to basic/intermediate/advanced screenwriting. Plus, I created a directing actors class, two genre studies courses, and every January I supervised a student production on location. So, by the time I left teaching to go back to work in the industry full time, I had a lot of varied skills that helped keep me working.

LAPPG: A lot of your work includes television series for children. Was this a specific choice?

GH: Children’s television was definitely not my career goal. When I was planning to leave teaching, I called a producer friend to see if he might have a job for me. He was producing a sci-fi action-adventure movie called Galaxis. They had already hired an editor that the director really wanted to use, but that editor was only available during production. So, when they were through with principal photography, I took over the editing of that feature. Next, my producer friend was going to produce a “family” film that was being directed by Sean McNamara. That film, P.U.N.K.S., had five kid protagonists, but also starred Henry Winkler, Dennis Quaid, and Cathy Moriarty. My association with Sean and is partner David Brookwell and their BME Productions led to me editing other family movies for their company – Treehouse Hostage, The Trial of Old Drum, and Wild Grizzly.

Then, the brand-new cable network Disney Channel was forming and looking for original content. BME became the first production company that Disney Channel hired, and the first show was Even Stevens. For the next few years I was primarily editing Disney Channel shows and pilots, and shows for Nickelodeon, The N, and Cartoon Network, and during hiatuses I was editing reality shows or TV movies or indie features.

LAPPG: What was it like working on those popular Disney shows like Even Stevens, That’s So Raven, Zeke and Luther and the Amazon Original show you are working on now, Just Add Magic?

GH: My experience of working on children’s shows has been generally pretty great. Because of strict labor laws that limit kids work hours, production days are scheduled extremely carefully. There are almost never Fraterdays. A five-day week with 12-hour days is the norm. Even Stevens and Just Add Magic were the best experiences of my professional career because of the people running those shows. When the producers are positive, caring people who keep the actors and the crew happy, there is nothing better. Those two shows in particular were wonderful because the writers were constantly striving to deliver quality content. On Even Stevens, we were literally the first original Disney Channel show, so we were given pretty much carte-blanche to let our freak flag fly and our imaginations run wild in the way we staged, shot, and edited the episodes. We were making it up as we went along, and it was a fantastic creative environment. Just Add Magic was a much more mature show in that it was smoother, slicker, and had more serious and twisty long-arcing plots. But both of those shows were blessed with young cast members that showed up every day with their lines memorized and worked their butts off, yet also laughed and goofed off and had fun.

LAPPG: Speaking of Just Add Magic, the new season Just Add Magic – New Protectors has recently been released. Many fans are waiting to see how they will be handling the original cast aging out and the bringing in of a set of new, younger characters. Do you have any insights?

GH: I never thought of the young cast as “aging out.” Perhaps that was Amazon’s logic, I don’t know. But the actresses didn’t seem to be getting bored with the show or too old to play those parts because the writing kept advancing with them as they grew up. I replaced another editor toward the end of the first season on that show. I was immediately impressed with how spot on and consistent those three girls were. During the second and third seasons they just kept getting better and better. I think the most noticeable jump, in terms of growing up, was between the end of the first season and the beginning of the second. Not only did all they seem to grow about 3 inches, they went from being tween kids to young ladies.

LAPPG: As an editor on this popular Amazon Series what is the relationship like between you and the director.

GH: From my experience on several TV series, the show is run by the show runner(s). There may be a main recurring director for a series, but most directors are just hired guns who come in and direct an episode or two, then go off and direct on some other show. The interaction between the producers/show runners and the editors is the constant and sustaining relationship. Per DGA rules, a director only gets two days to work with an editor on a half hour show, four days on an hour show. Then they are gone, and the rest of the decisions and shaping of the show are the responsibility of the show runner. When I first started working in television, I was surprised at how few directors even come into the editing room or take their full two or four days. Most of them just email their notes, because even though they want to deliver a good show, they know they can’t get too out of the box creative because they will be overruled by the producers who try to maintain consistency from episode to episode.

LAPPG: One of the things that you shared with us at an LAPPG meeting was that although Just Add Magic was a VFX heavy show, many of the effects were done practically. Can you detail one or two instances of this and how they helped tell the story?

GH: In the season one finale, the girls cook a spell that freezes the entire town, right during a big town fair. Rather than create a freeze frame (which always looks like, well, a freeze frame) the director simply had the dozens of background players stop moving. That allowed the natural breeze to blow scarves and flags and spin the pinwheels, but the people did not move. Our three main girls had taken a counter spell, so they don’t freeze. A couple of fairly long scenes play out while everyone in the background is frozen. With the foreground girls moving and talking normally, and the camera dollying back and forth, it’s incredibly effective and believable. Yes, we did have to digitally fix a few eye blinks in the frozen people, but it’s pretty magical!

Another technique that was used on a few different episodes where characters supposedly appeared differently to the characters than how they appear to the TV audience was by the simple “Texas-switch,” where we see the person on camera talking, then the camera pans and lands on the same character only now they are in a different body. Or possibly when a character walks up to or past a mirror, but their reflected image is of someone else. No VFX, just camera and character movement.

The one I showed at the LAPPG meeting was my favorite. In jumping back and forth in time from present day to the 1960s. The girls eat one of their magical recipes, but they also have to all three tap the walls in the room for the spell to transport them back in time. They shot the scene in Corky’s Diner (in Sherman Oaks, which hasn’t changed its décor in 50 years). We show a wide shot of a dreary diner with almost no patrons except for our three actresses, then tilt the camera down to their hands as they simultaneously slap the wood, then pull out to see a bright and shining diner full of people in 1960s wardrobe and the signage has all changed to that era, with a 1960s tune playing on the jukebox. At the end of the scene we reverse the action and when they tap the wood we are back to the present day. No VFX, just seamless editing.

LAPPG: Since this series, like so many nowadays, stream all the episodes at once, does this allow for changes in the story as you work through editorial? Do you ever go back and unlock prior episodes?

GH: On Just Add Magic, because we had season long or several-episodes long story arcs, if something seemed like it needed more of a setup or clarifying detail, then small adjustments could be made to previous episodes – but these adjustments were made BEFORE the episodes were locked. A finished, on-lined, color corrected, mixed episode would most likely NOT be unlocked unless something major happened, like a character was recast of something like that. But most TV today seems to be done way in advance of when it airs – not just streaming shows. I’ve heard editors of network shows like Glee and Breaking Bad and others talk about being halfway (or completely) through editing a season before it starts airing.

LAPPG: Can you tell us what a standard schedule for a television series looks like?

GH: A typical half hour episode shoots for 4-5 days, an hour show for 8-10 days. (Game of Thrones shoots for about four months!). The editor puts together the episode by himself/herself, usually by the third day after they finish shooting. That’s the editor’s cut. Then the director gets his/her two (or four) days with the editor to create the director’s cut. Then the show runners get their pass to create the producer’s cut, which goes to the network or studio executives. The network sends their notes and when executed, this becomes Network Cut 1. Depending on how in sync the network is with the goals and storylines being developed by the writers there may be some pushback on the network notes and one or two more versions may get sent back and forth before the network gives the official Locked Picture decree.

LAPPG: With such an expansive career you’re obviously doing something right! How have you gotten your work?

GH: The simple answer is: People who know me, or people who know people who know me. In other words, recommendations.

Right out of college I took a job as a grip on a movie – for free – for a schlock producer because I just wanted to work on a real feature. A handful of guys I met on that crew, who were also just out of college, became my good friends. Whenever one person from that group heard about the next film, he’d share that info and we’d all get jobs on that film (for $$ after the first one).

Right after I moved to LA, I also got a job at Disneyland as a stage lighting and sound technician – my college theater technical training paying off. Because most everyone on those crews came strictly from stage, I became known as the “film guy” and whenever there was a commercial film shoot in the park, I would become the gaffer on those shoots. After I left Disneyland as an employee, they hired me back as an independent lighting director for several years, where I would be in charge of lighting special events

in the Disneyland park or souvenir films that were sold in the gift shops. That led to me starting my own company and editing many of those same projects.

On a whim, I answered an ad in the back of the Hollywood Reporter looking for editors willing to relocate to Austin, Texas. That 8-month job turned into almost two years of editing PBS series. One of the editors I met on that job came back to LA and started a feature film sound editing crew and hired me on a few projects before I got the teaching job at Chapman University.

One of the friends I made on that first freebee film right out of college became the producer I mentioned earlier that introduced me to the BME peeps which got me hooked up in children’s TV. One of the producer’s assistants at BME went to work for another producer who was producing low budget horror films and she recommended me to them, which is how I ended up editing four horror features in a row. One of my former Chapman students, who was producing music videos, hired me to edit the first feature his company was producing. Another one of my former Chapman students, who was writing Lifetime movies, recommended me to a company who was producing those movies and that has been a very good hook-up for editing gigs.

LAPPG: Do you have a personal mantra or a motto in terms of editing or your editing work?

GH: When I was teaching, I would always convey my personal motto to my students: Editing happens in that space between your ears. It does not matter which hardware or software you use.

LAPPG: The end goal for a lot of people in the entertainment industry is to become a director. Can you talk about how your directing opportunities came about?

GH: My last three years at as a student at Iowa State University I was also a member of an outside theater group (not the university’s productions) and we did three shows during the school year and a five-show summer stock season. Through that company, I did a lot of acting and singing, played trombone and guitar in pit orchestras, conducted some orchestras, and directed my first two musicals.

While I was teaching film classes at Chapman University, I was also privileged to direct two of the theater department’s mainstage productions, the Lanford Wilson play, The Hot L Baltimore, and the musical Man of La Mancha.

When I started working with Sean McNamara, editing his BME company films, I told him of my theater acting and directing background, which it turned out was very similar to his. I also told him of my desire to direct films. As part of the first film I edited for them, P.U.N.K.S., we needed a massive weekend of pickups and inserts for this technically intricate kid’s movie. Sean put me in charge, and I directed 140 shots in two days. On his next feature, Race to Space, I was editing the film, but also was able to direct a couple of days of 2nd unit.

I guess those were my test runs because even though I was a full-time editor on Even Stevens, the producers gave me my shot at directing network TV with three episodes of that show. My second of those episodes was nominated for a DGA award for Children’s Television – a great honor. The head writer of Even Stevens went on to co-create and was the show runner on Zeke and Luther. I edited the pilot for that show and edited several episodes, but also ended up directing 12 episodes, more than any other director. Through BME I also edited and directed shows for Nickelodeon, The N, and Cartoon Network.

LAPPG: As the technology has changed over the years can you discuss how that has impacted your work?

GH: All editors of a certain age can attest to the fact that in the good old days of film, you used to cut with only the picture and a single dialogue track (and maybe add some music for test screenings) until the movie was completely finished editing. Only then was it sent to the sound editors, composer, colorist, etc. But now, because non-linear editing system have the capability of endless video and audio tracks, and plug-ins for every conceivable process, producers and network execs and even most directors won’t watch a work in progress without complete sound and music scoring and possibly even a pass of color correction and temp VFX. They EXPECT everything they watch (even the first cut) to have that level of polish, like it’s ready for air. If it doesn’t have all those whistles and bells, they often don’t seem to be able to concentrate on the actors’ performances or the pacing of the story – they feel the show is undercooked and not good.

I don’t mind putting in all of that extra stuff. I actually like finding just the right piece of temp music or sound effect. It’s just a matter of having the time to search for those things. Since most indie projects I work on are low budget, I don’t have the luxury of an assistant editor to help build the soundtracks, nor do I have a music supervisor or music editor to share the workload. On a TV series, I generally am blessed with those asst editor and music people, which allows me to go home and sleep every so often.

LAPPG: Can you offer any words of wisdom on how to have a long and successful career in this business?

GH: a) Say yes to almost everything, high paying or low paying, and no matter what the pay, always do your best, because you never know where the people working on that project might end up.
b) Get involved with organizations like Film Independent or the Sundance Institute, and work on one of the films that their members make. Many of them end up nominated for Independent Spirit Awards.
c) Learn After Effects & Photoshop. Really learn them. You will become more valuable to every show you work on.
d) Have the mindset that you’re in this business for the long haul. Forever. If you give yourself an exit, or a “if I don’t make it by such and such a time I’ll quit”, then when things get tough, you’ll take that exit.
e) Fill in your breaks on larger projects by cutting short form content – commercials, music videos, short films, trailers, anything that keeps you working and keeps you sharp.
f) Join organizations like Los Angeles Post Production Group and attend the meetings for networking and learning about new technologies.  If getting to meetings is difficult, watch the videos on their Youtube Channel.  Also, watch free webcasts from Adobe, Avid, Apple, Boris FX Mocha, MotionVFX, Ripple etc., and learn all about the latest and greatest toys and techniques.

LAPPG: With so many long hours in the edit bay, how do you de-stress?

GH: About six years ago, after coming off of back to back to back editing and directing jobs, I was feeling pretty blah and out of shape.  So I started hiking the canyons and trails around LA.  That quickly led to longer hikes, which led to higher and higher peaks.  After a few years of that, hiking had lost some of its luster for me, so I started road biking.  I guess that means my method of de-stressing (besides going to movies) is extreme physical challenges.  It really clears my head.

Meet Re-Recording Mixer Karol Urban, CAS

Interview by Wendy Woodhall

One of LAPPG’s big supporters is this impressive woman, Karol Urban, CAS. Karol understands the importance of providing an opportunity for people in the industry to meet monthly and recommends LAPPG to many people as a great place to network and find work. Karol’s career and her work as President of Cinema Audio Society as well as her dedication to giving back to the community is inspiring indeed. Meet Karol Urban, CAS!

Los Angeles Post Production Group: As an in house re-recording mixer/sound designer at Discovery Channel in DC many years ago, what made you want to move to Los Angeles and what were your professional goals? 

Karol Urban: I was in my mid-thirties and felt I was running out of new challenges in D.C. D.C. is mainly a documentary and edutainment market.  I had worked for Discovery for almost a decade and I knew the brand extremely well. My husband, Steve Urban, did a lot of work for National Geographic in the same capacity. We were both in need of new adventures.

We wanted that type of creative battle within yourself that forces you to grow. We were both hungry to learn new ways of working and find new creative ways to tell stories with sound. But we loved D.C. and there are many things we still miss. For starters, giving up a full-time position with exceptional benefits for a freelance life in the LA market is definitely more stressful!

I credit much of our success in LA as a result of the combination of tasks one is expected to perform in D.C. as an audio post mixer or sound designer, the two more common professional titles. In D.C., I did every aspect of audio post from editorial to tape layback for almost every project I touched. It was not unusual to have to be a dialog editor, ADR/narration mixer, sound effects editor, sound designer, music editor, an occasional Foley artist and mixer, and re-recording mixer (while usually acting as your own mix tech/recordist). This gave me a great foundation of skills and a broad perspective of the challenges the entire sound team faces. I’m grateful for it because it still makes me very handy, resourceful, and respectful of my sound teams today. 

LAPPG: Can you detail the type of work that you do in post production audio?

KU: My specialty is re-recording mixing and my general career focus is dialogue and music. I occasionally mix single mixer projects and I occasionally mix sfx with some very talented re-recording mixers.  I still cut the occasional reel of dialogue, or supervise a film project or pilot, but having a focus that takes up a good 90% of my time has creatively freed me to expand my storytelling tools and techniques….to hone better and better skills. Now, working as part of a fully complimented sound crew, I am continually grateful to the other sound team members on my projects, who bestow their knowledge and perspective on me daily. There is a seemingly endless array of types of work, workflows, and creative approaches. 

LAPPG: Woody and I knew of you before you left the east coast for the warmer weather of the west coast because you did an impressive job of getting the word out that you were coming to town and then you followed up with coming to an LAPPG networking meeting. Can you share advice for those who are relocating and how they can best prepare for a big move professionally?

KU: Ironically, I wasn’t even sure I was going to move to LA until 2 weeks before I did. I knew I wanted to learn from masters and I sought my masters pretty aggressively, even across the country. While still in D.C., I began posting about the work I was doing and the work I wanted to do and adored.  I asked questions and shared mixing experiences online on audio blogs, social media, and forums.  I joined AES, MPSE, and CAS, and began volunteering as a writer for the CAS Quarterly publication. This allowed me the ability to interview or chat with talented people and introduce myself in a way where I was sincerely just looking to get to know them.  Soon, I had made friends. 

I wrote fan mail to mixers who were killing it on a particular film or TV show that I would fall in love with. I can’t believe now I have actually had the honor of working with many of these masters. Amazing!

My husband and I also spent our vacation every year visiting LA for the CAS and MPSE Awards. Before I even knew I was going to move to LA, I was already visiting friends and touring studios. When I ultimately moved here, I attended the LA Sound Group, LAPPG, and started volunteering more heavily in CAS and MPSE.

Breaking in is scary and hard, and I still have many hurdles to climb and goals to reach.  On every project, no matter how small or big or seemingly straight forward, I try to give something extra of myself and look for ways to grow.  Between every project, I study, I listen, and I learn.   

LAPPG: How long have you lived in LA now? In that time what was the trajectory to get to where you are now, working on popular network shows including Grey’s Anatomy, Kingdom and New Girl?

I moved here in September of 2011. I remember being really lost and concerned that I had made a jump I could not survive. I was fortunate to begin working right away as I had a short contract with a small studio called Gray Martin Studios next to Lantana in Santa Monica that I landed ahead of my move to Los Angeles.  There I worked on Discovery shows, reality shows for Viacom, commercials, and the occasional scripted non-union shows like FX’s The League.   After fulfilling that contract, I started freelancing for Wildwoods and Levels and many of the non-union houses around town. 

People are understandably hesitant to put a person they don’t know in a room with clients. It takes time to show people your demeanor and commitment. So in an effort to expand my client list and demonstrate my professionalism to facilities, I began selling post-sound packages to producers and directors myself through Urban Audio Post. We began four walling dub stages at places I wanted to hire me as a re-recording mixer.  This gave me more scripted and film experience along with valuable exposure within the LA area. There was very little money in it at first.  But we were determined.  At one point I was working 2-3 days a week at Levels on The Bachelor franchise, was editing and pre-dubbing Dance Mom’s on the weekend for another mixer, working on indie films for Juniper Post, working 2 union days a week at Fox on promos for the FX network, all while Steven supervised our own clients and prepared them for the dub stage where he mixed FX and I mixed dialog and music.  I knew something was going to break open, I just needed to stay focused and steady. 

All the while, any random day that I happened to not be booked, week day or weekend, I tried to expand my network. On my “days off” my calendar was filled with anywhere between one to three appointments to meet somebody new.

After two solid years of burning the candle at both ends, fate stepped in. Through a random online contact and some thorough cross-referencing of people they had worked with that I knew personally, I was given the opportunity to audition for Grey’s Anatomy. Through that audition I landed the FX chair, and that began the next chapter of my career.

LAPPG: Audio is a notoriously male dominated field, were there special challenges as a female or did it actually offer you opportunities?

KU: Just in the last couple of years, I do think being female has occasionally been considered in my favor. In the past it was generally a source of disqualification and discomfort.

Sadly, bias and gender stereotyping do exist. It is not an easy nor fair world. But, I don’t give that “noise” too much power over me. I want to be “so good they can’t ignore me”. This is my singular goal.  I want to be chosen for my merits and what I bring to the table. So, I focus on bringing that thunder. As more and more people who embody diversity continue to succeed based on their talents and take their power, I believe this type of thing will naturally diminish. 

Personally, I am truly counting the days until we have reached a level of empathy and understanding across gender lines where we can simply be considered for what we can offer a project.  That is the goal. It pains me to think that anyone, male, female, or otherwise, would be overlooked for a position based on anything that is not related to the task at hand.

LAPPG: Have you seen women’s roles in the audio industry change in the last 10 years you’ve been in Hollywood? What do you see happening in the future? 

KU: Early in my career, my girlfriends were never other mixers.  I was more than a decade into my career before I met another woman mixer.  Now, there is some serious female competition. Perhaps that is due to my new location, but yes, I do see the stereotypes of my position changing.

Ideally, in the future, your mixer could be anyone to such a degree that you have no picture in your mind of who that person is before you meet them. We are creatives and diversity on any team breeds an expanded perspective.  I would love for the future to bring an age where we can just be whoever we are and be evaluated for what we can do as sound professionals to elevate a particular project. 

LAPPG: What projects have been the most rewarding for you creatively and professionally?

KU: Usually I find the most creatively and professionally rewarding projects are ones that come to me on the heels of something very different.  For instance, I was really creatively stimulated when I went from a season of Grey’s Anatomy, Station 19, and Single Parents to horror films for Hulu’s Into The Dark horror film anthology series.

When a big contrast like this hits my schedule I begin to really notice trends and differences in storytelling. For instance, I was able to observe the consistent imperative importance of timing, which is crucial in both drama, comedy and horror. But, in general, the techniques differ.  For instance, horror generally works by building anticipation to a moment and then misdirecting the delivery of the action. A jump scare doesn’t work if you expect it.  But comedy generally has an “on” rhythm where the timing lets you know that there is a punch line or commentary occurring… a moment to laugh. The switch from one to the other has been very stimulating. Occasionally, I get to offer very valuable solutions to enhancing the narrative by applying the tools from one genre in another. Soon, I will go from dramedy to historical period sci-fi. I can’t wait!!!

LAPPG: You were elected President of Cinema Audio Society (CAS) last year. Congratulations! What part of CAS’s mission appealed to you most and lead you to want to take on such a huge position?

KU: I was inspired to run by our encouraging and generous members as well as past leaders of the organization.  What fellow mixers have done for me in regard to education, encouragement, and opportunity is nothing less than incredible. Fostering that behavior within our society and paying it forward to future members of our community is the right thing to do. The CAS was founded on the concept that through community we are stronger and can achieve a higher level of excellence in our craft than we can alone.  We can lift each other up.  This is how I see my mission as President.  I want to bring people together, facilitate opportunity, and create fraternity. 

It really is an amazing opportunity to be able to serve in this capacity.  This is one of the greatest honors I will have in my lifetime. The faith and confidence the members of the CAS have entrusted in me is very precious.

LAPPG: What experience and credentials do LAPPG members or audio professionals in general need to join this prestigious organization and what are some of the benefits and resources CAS provides for its members?

Benefits of membership include:
-Voting privileges in the CAS Awards (Active only)
-Use of letters “CAS” after Screen Credits (Active only)
-Mail distribution of our CAS Quarterly magazine
-A myriad of discounts, screening invites, FYC event invitations, panels, screeners, etc.
-Exclusive invitations to CAS social events, membership meetings, CAS education events, and CAS member screenings.
-Access to the membership directory.
-Community outreach and volunteer opportunities including judging the Student Recognition Awards and interviewing award-winning mixers for the CAS Quarterly.

But most of all, you are made part of a group that is dedicated to elevating sound mixing for film and television within the entertainment industry and the professional community.  

The CAS has a number of classifications of membership for which you can apply.  

We offer:
1. Active

2. Associate

3. Student

Active members are active sound mixers who have a minimum of 5 years of verifiable, credited mixing experience in motion pictures or television, have been sponsored by 2 active members, have completed and submitted a complete signed application, received approval by 2/3 of our board of directors, and have had their names published in the CAS Quarterly for 30 days. 

Associate members are individuals involved in cinematic sound, or a closely related field, who do not qualify for active membership.

Student members are individuals actively enrolled in a recognized educational program with an interest in the Art of Cinematic Sound.

LAPPG: How do you maintain balance between your work as a re-recording mixer and your equally time consuming job as President of CAS, the prestigious industry association.

KU: Balance? What’s that?

Sincerely, I live what I do. That is my personality.  I am a bit fanatical about it.  While I do enjoy a couple hours here or there to play the piano, take a kickboxing class, or escape town with my hubby, I really find a lot of joy in this wonderful, fascinating, mind-controlling, invisible animal called sound. I never get sick of it and I can’t be away from it too long. And I am blessed, my husband is a fanatic too. He even serves on the board for the Motion Picture Sound Editors and devotes huge amounts of time assisting this sister organization.

That being said, I am a big list maker and love to check things off.  I block out time every day to respond to emails and phone calls for the organization and for my career. I still spend my “days off” planning initiatives, meeting with members or folks new to town, or reaching out to potential resources to enrich the CAS membership experience. Once a month, the CAS has a board meeting and there are other activities we throw. All of which I make a priority, right behind paying work. 

It is a crazy game to balance and at times a bit overwhelming.  But it never ceases to be an honor and a privilege.

LAPPG:  Can you offer any advice to those coming to LA to pursue a career in post production?

KU: Get out there!! Get involved.  If you hear of something and you can’t do it, make it your mission to pass on that opportunity on to someone who can truly use it and will treat that opportunity well.  Be the advocate for someone else that you seek for yourself. 

When starting on a new job or on a new team, always do things “their” way first. Until you master “their” way, you have no business offering changes. There may be a reason for their methodology that you have not discovered and conforming before innovating will show respect and ensure you are truly offering a better solution. You can’t know what you don’t know, ya know?